Episode 83: Getting Started with VIP Days: Simplify Your Life with this Brilliant Business Model with Sarah Masci
Sarah Masci is the CEO and Founder of Day Rate Mastery®, an online company that teaches expert service providers how to work less and make more with a streamlined “VIP Day” business model. If your days are filled with scope creep, inconsistent timelines, and overlapping client projects, this model may be a great fit for your business.
In this episode, Sarah explains what exactly VIP Days are and how they work, the benefits of switching from hour-by-hour client work to VIP Days, and what characteristics make for a great client of a VIP Day offer. You don’t want to miss our fun, intriguing chat!
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Michelle Lynne began her interior design career after spending more than two decades working in Corporate America. She began in the home staging arena and has since built a successful, award-winning, full-service interior design firm, employing talented designers and serving clients across the country.
In the summer of 2018, Michelle began focusing on a big gap she saw missing in the interior design industry: teaching interior designers how to run the business of an interior design business. She now engages in private coaching and leads an in-depth, 12-month group coaching program, both options focus on teaching designers profitable processes, systems, strategies, and mindset needed to run a streamlined, profitable interior design firm.
Her motto is simple: we rise by lifting others.
Connect with Michelle
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Michelle Lynne: Welcome to Designed for the Creative Mind, a podcast for interior designers and creative entrepreneurs to run their business with purpose, efficiency, and passion. Because, while every design is different, the process should remain the same. Prepare yourself for some good conversations with amazing guests, a dash of Jesus and a touch of the woowoo, and probably a swear word or two. If you're ready to stop trading your time for money and enjoy your interior design business, you are in the right place. I'm your host, Michelle Lynne.
Michelle Lynne: Well, hello, welcome back, everybody. Thanks for being here. I want to introduce to you, Sarah Masci. She is the CEO and founder of Day Rate Mastery. It's an online company that teaches expert service providers, like you, how to work less and make more with a streamlined VIP Day business model. And Sarah, I'm so excited, you're here because I've been so curious about this business model. It's been in the back of my head, like, how can I learn it? How can I teach it? What's going on? So can we start by just saying, what is this VIP Day that you teach? Like, give me just the overall 30,000-foot short answer, like, you know, okay, go. Thank you.
Sarah Masci: Yes. Thank you so much. So excited to be here, excited to talk about VIP days, and the 30-foot view of what a VIP Day is, is basically taking your services, your creative services that you're doing, typically over a longer, stretched-out six-week timeframe, even a month timeframe, whatever it is, and condensing it down, stripping out all the fluff, all the back and forth, all that, like, never-ending, you know, back and forth emails, whatever it is, compressing everything into one day, or maybe two days, really, it could be a couple of days. But we're compressing it down into that, in that VIP Day intensive model where you're getting everything done, or as much as possible, done in one day and you're charging a premium price for your day, as opposed to that longer timeframe.
Michelle Lynne: That's crazy. Okay, so first of all, thank you for joining in there. I was just so excited, I wanted to hear all about it. Welcome to the podcast.
Sarah Masci: Thanks, I'm happy to be here.
Michelle Lynne: So glad you're here. Obviously, sometimes I get ahead of myself with these things that have me excited. How did you get involved in the VIP Days? Tell me a little about your background.
Sarah Masci: Yeah, so I have actually been an online business owner since 2005. And I really kind of started my journey just as a way to stay home. When my oldest son was a newborn, I just hated the idea of going to a nine-to-five corporate job every day and having like, no time at all with him at the end of the day. And so I was determined to figure out a way that I could start my own business, make money for myself working from home with my son, and eventually my subsequent three more sons. So I have four now, but this all started
Michelle Lynne: Four boys? Oh, God, bless you, girl.
Sarah Masci: Yeah, ages 18 to 10. So it's crazy. Yeah, it's been quite the journey. So anyway, started, you know, just trying to figure out how to do something, anything from home, so that I could stay home. And I eventually, after a series of trying a bunch of different things, I wound up in branding, brand strategy, brand design, and web design. And that was around 2012, 2010 to 2012. That timeframe is when I really transitioned into becoming a designer. And over the years, I had accumulated all of these great connections and, you know, just through networking and doing all different things. And so I had clients lined up ready to work with me, I always had a backlog of clients. And I was always just, I always had anywhere from five to ten clients ongoing at any given time. You know, just over the years, like, that was great. I mean, business was great, but it just got to be too much back and forth and never-ending timelines. And so it was around 2018, that I was like, I have to figure out a better process. I have to figure out how to structure this client work more efficiently so that I'm not working around the clock on never-ending projects. And so that's when I created my Book Me for A Day, that's what I called it, Book Me for A Day, and it was basically, you pay me for one day and we get as much done as we can possibly get done. Whatever it is that you want help with. Whether it's your website or marketing materials or your branding or whatever, anything that fell into the range of the work that I do, I could do for you in a day. And so that wasn't 2018, and it has just evolved beyond my wildest dreams since then. And now I've kind of gone on to teach thousands of other service providers how to take their work and compress their work into a one-day model.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, wow, that is amazing. And how does the, how does the pricing compare?
Sarah Masci: It's actually not too much different. Like, if you are looking at, let me just give you an example. Like a typical project, I maybe would have charged $5,000 for but it's stretched out over the course of maybe six weeks. Now I can compress that $5,000 project into two days, and I charge $2,500 per day. Oh, actually I was charging $3,000 per day. So I basically made $6,000 for two days’ worth of work versus $5,000 for six weeks of like, bite-size work throughout those six weeks.
Michelle Lynne: Sounds genius. Yeah. And then you're done, and you can move on. So you don't have to think about the lingering details.
Sarah Masci: Yes, exactly. It's so, it's like mind-freeing for you to be able to wake up, start a project, finish it at the end of the day, and know that if the client needs anything more from you, they have to pay you for another day.
Michelle Lynne: Mm-hmm. How was it to sell it to your clients?
Sarah Masci: Actually, they loved it.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, because they get their results so much faster.
Sarah Masci: Yeah, clients love it. They get to be part of, they love like, they love being involved in that one-day intensive. They love waking up in the morning with nothing and going to bed at night with a finished project. They love the collaborative nature of it. Yeah, they love getting it done in a day as opposed to having to wait. And you know, clients don't like the back-and-forth, drawn-out timelines any more than we as service providers do.
Michelle Lynne: Now, does this apply to all of your service levels?
Sarah Masci: Yeah, like, can you explain what you mean?
Michelle Lynne: So like in interior design, we've got the full-service interior design, which, you know, if it's renovations and stuff like that, it would not be applicable for a done in a day. But if it is just like, hey, I need my living room furnished or something like that, then you could just go out and figure that out, make it all happen.
Sarah Masci: Yes.
Michelle Lynne: And then turn that around in a couple of days.
Sarah Masci: Yeah, let me give you an example. One of my students is an interior designer, and we've been chatting back and forth in the DMs about how she's going to structure her VIP Day offer. And what she did have was more of like a strategy, design clarity, in a day. And that was going to be a day of like, getting clear on the layout of the room, measuring like the dimensions, figuring out the use of the room, that kind of thing. And then from there, she was going to sell them into mini packages. But I said, why not just sell the mini packages? Like, a kitchen makeover in a day, furnishing selection in a day, mini bedroom makeover in a day. So like little things. And really it comes down to, the client is paying you for a day of your time and whatever you can get done for them in a day, whether it's picking out, you know, fabrics, or doing measurements, or doing a kitchen remodel, not the whole remodel, but
Michelle Lynne: Right. But coming up with a lot of the selections for a refresh.
Sarah Masci: Yeah. And so you can really plug anything into that model where they're paying you per day, and you're getting done as much as you can in that timeframe.
Michelle Lynne: But it's a premium because you're not looking at any other projects.
Sarah Masci: Correct. Yep, they have all eyes and ears. I mean, we turn off social media, we shut down our inbox, we turn our phone off, and we are 100% focused on you and your project for 6, 7, 8 hours, whatever you decide you want it to be.
Michelle Lynne: Right. That's amazing. So I think some of the benefits are going to be that you crank out these projects quickly. And you don't have them, like you said, lingering. Because, especially with like that last little bit of detail in any project is the least sexy to finish because you're like, I'm so close to being done. I just need to finish this lalalalala. But then this other project comes up and it's sexy, and you don't want to do the last of this other one. So that's a good benefit because you can just 'one and done' and be out of there. You're making the same if not more money because the client, it sounds like they're willing to pay a premium because it's an expedited process.
Sarah Masci: Yep, exactly.
Michelle Lynne: What other benefits are there that I've just assumed but haven't put into words?
Sarah Masci: Let me go back to that first one you just said where you're like, you get to the unsexy part at the end. And just speaking from personal experience as a web designer, those projects go on and on and you're waiting and your ugh, like that never-ending back and forth. And by the time you get to the end of it, you are so like frustrated and pretty much resentful of the client, you're both kind of like resenting the whole thing. And so there's no happy client off-boarding process. It's like, oh my gosh, thank God, we are done with it, move on to the next project. And you don't get that glowing testimonial and you don't get your Google business reviews. You know, you just don't leave on a good note where you're like, hey, I would love to work with you again.
Michelle Lynne: Or refer business to you. Yeah.
Sarah Masci: You're just kinda like, oh my gosh, I don't ever want to talk to that client ever again, that was like so miserable. But with the VIP Day model, and I noticed this right away in my testimonials, that those very first like, handful of clients that I put into that one-day intensive model, their testimonials were glowing, like raving. And all I needed was about four of those raving testimonials. And those testimonials on my website pretty much sold it for me for the next three years.
Michelle Lynne: Wow.
Sarah Masci: I was able to keep selling more, because people were like, this was absolutely amazing. Best design experience I've ever had. So efficient, so productive, like loved waking up in the morning and going to bed with a finished project. And like, all of that.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, it's not long and drawn out. Because I think for full-service interior design, part of it is the experience over the long haul because it is, you just can't do the renovation or the white glove service or whatever. But for those projects that are just a step or two lower than that, or a client who just needs it done so quickly, this is a great solution.
Sarah Masci: Yeah, yeah, I just speaking from experience, as a homeowner, I would like gladly pay someone to come in, spend the day with me, and help me knock out my bedroom. Help me pick out the furnishings, help me pick out the art, you know, just like the details that I need, in one day.
Michelle Lynne: Absolutely. And we oftentimes are buying our furniture from to the trade vendors, which is where we, as designers, we make a bucket of money doing that. But also, if we're getting a premium and we are just in and out, going through and making selections from retail and just giving them to you to manage, that's almost a dream. Because it's like, here, give me some cash, I show up, and then I leave, and you're handling all of the details. Now, do you have any follow-up time? Like if you were my client and something was back ordered, could you reach out and say, hey, what's another solution because this has been back ordered for the next 80 years?
Sarah Masci: Yeah, so what I always recommend, it's really like a five-phase process for a VIP Day. So you're gonna have the onboarding part, and then you're going to have the pre-work. So there's a period of time from when the client books you for the day, you know, you send out your onboarding, you're welcome, all of that. And then there's a pre-work phase, where the client has to, like, do a little bit of the legwork. Like, they have to talk to you about their desires and their family dynamics, and then there's a kickoff call, or a kickoff session, or a kickoff where you kind of, everybody gets on the same page, review that pre-work, make sure you're good to go and set the expectations for the day of the VIP Day. Then you have the VIP Day and everything that happens in that day is whatever you decide you want to do in a day, and then you have the post-intensives time. And that can be 7 days, 14 days, 30 days, whatever you want it to be. For mine personally, it was 30 days of post-intensive support where I didn't do any additional work, but if the client had a question about any of the work that we did do together, I was available to answer their questions. Or in my case, because it was online, it was web design, like maybe they're like, how do I change this photo? And I would do a quick two-minute video and say, here's what you need to do.
Michelle Lynne: So you didn't leave them high and dry?
Sarah Masci: Exactly.
Michelle Lynne: Sorry, dude. I already answered all those questions. Too bad you didn't take good notes.
Sarah Masci: So I think that's really important. Because people do get nervous when they're like, well, I only have one day with you. What happens if I change my mind? And so it's good to have that post-intensive time.
Michelle Lynne: Well, and that also allows for the sales process of a higher, more expedited rate, but you still have the support. You're not just going to go dark.
Sarah Masci: Exactly. Yeah, clients love it.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, I can see why. That's very fun. So let's talk about the client. What characteristics make for a great client for the VIP Day offer?
Sarah Masci: There's a few things. So the first thing would be a client that has more money than time, you've got to find clients who just want it done. They just pay whatever, they'll pay top dollar, they'll pay a premium price because they want this problem solved today. They don't want to wait three months to have their problem solved. So it's a client that has more money than time and it's a client that has quick decision-making qualities.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, right, right, right, they can't sit and think on it because they need to move today.
Sarah Masci: Correct. The faster we move, the more we're gonna get done. If you take an hour to decide on this one piece of furniture, that's all the less time we have to spend on other stuff throughout the rest of the day.
Michelle Lynne: That's what I tell my kid. We're wasting time, we don't have time to read books before we go to bed, you only want one.
Sarah Masci: Yes, exactly. So they have to be quick, fast-action decision-makers. And the third characteristic that I always tell my students is, to make sure you're working with clients who are like one or two at most, decision-makers. Because again, if you get into a situation where five people need to vote on this thing, they're just gonna drag it out, it's gonna drag out. The biggest thing is, I always say, especially in the creative space, when you're doing a VIP Day, it can be very difficult to guarantee deliverables because of that exact thing. The client is going to have to say yes or no or maybe or let me think about it or whatever. And for all those clients who are like, let me think about it, or no, I don't like that, can we see something else? No, I don't like that. No, I don't like that. That’s just more time lapsing throughout the day. And if you've promised them, XYZ, we're gonna get this done, this done, this done, this done, but then you have a client who's wishy-washy, but you've promised them a whole bunch of things, and they can't make up their mind, then it's like you're into the next day still working on it because they took too long.
Michelle Lynne: Right.
Sarah Masci: So go into it with, you know, I don't guarantee deliverables. This is what we can expect to achieve during the day. But it's all dependent on how responsive you are, how quick you are to decide on things, you know, that kind of thing.
Michelle Lynne: Right. Yeah, that makes sense. So do you book a second day on your calendar just in case?
Sarah Masci: No, because I don't guarantee deliverables. So we're done at the end of the day, and we're done at four o'clock, whether we finished everything that you wanted, everything on the list or not, we're done. And if you run out of time and you want me for another day, you can pay for another day. So the client could choose to book a second day,
Michelle Lynne: But it's not the following day.
Sarah Masci: Exactly.
Michelle Lynne: Gotcha.
Sarah Masci: I never plan to work the following day on a single-day project, because those are my boundaries that when I'm done, I'm done.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, it's a one-day project, babe. I'm not putting two days on the calendar for you. Especially if they see two days on the calendar, they're like, oh, I can take my time. No problem.
Sarah Masci: Yeah, and one thing I will say, and I actually told a student this, she was like, how do I sell it without promising deliverables? And I know, that's a huge question everybody struggles with, and the fact of the matter is, you can sell it the way I just said, you know, like it's typically what we can do, but you know, it's dependent on this, this, this and this. But then you could also say, if you wish to not have any involvement in any of the decisions, and you want me to make all the decisions and do all of the work, and I just hand it to you at the end of the day, then I can guarantee we're gonna get this, this, this, and this done because the client is not involved.
Michelle Lynne: Right. Right. Right. Right. So for interior design, basically, would you just sit in front of the computer and pull things together?
Sarah Masci: Well, as a non-interior designer, I'm not sure. Like, I guess however you work the best. Would you sit on Zoom with a client? Would you go to the client's home? Would you do a whole bunch of work kind of on your own behind the scenes and present an assortment to the client? I mean, there's all different things. There's all different variables that go into interior design, and maybe some of the pre-work, maybe some of the client's homework is taking measurements. So you onboard them, they have to take measurements and fill out a questionnaire about their family's lifestyle so you get that information so that you have everything you need to get started without them. And then maybe halfway through the day, you say, okay, here's what I've come up with so far. What do you think of this? And then you pitch it to them just like I would a web design homepage.
Michelle Lynne: That makes sense.
Sarah Masci: Like, okay, here's everything you need. What do you think? Then the client gives some feedback and then you kind of keep going back and forth throughout the rest of the day.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, and they could send over some inspiration photos.
Sarah Masci: Yeah. Yeah. A mood board is also part of my packages it's very similar to web design and branding. Here's like, the mood board, like all of that kind of stuff.
Michelle Lynne: The color schemes, all of that. Yeah, we're actually redoing, I'm not sure when this is going to come out on the podcast, but I'm redoing my ML Interiors Group website, and it is very much the same thing. And I'm like, oh, yeah, totally get it. Let me give you some good feedback. Let me give you the feedback that I wish I could get from my clients. That color, it does not feel happy versus I just don't like it. Oh, that's very good. So you could do this with any sort of service-based industry?
Sarah Masci: Yes.
Michelle Lynne: Who have you worked with? So you have interior design clients? What other sorts of industries are you working with?
Sarah Masci: We've worked a lot of done-for-you online digital marketing services. So just to kind of ramble off: web design, brand design, copywriting, social media managers, podcast managers, podcast editors, systems specialists, like people who set up HoneyBook, Dubsado, CRM systems, funnel builders, course builders, all of those like online. Then there's bookkeeping, career coaches, health and wellness coaches, interior designers, home organizers, I'm trying to think, we've had so many.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, that sounds amazing, though. Yeah. And how fun to be able to see all the different industries, and potentially pull what's working for one into another, and being able to continue upleveling other people's businesses as they create these additional revenue streams.
Sarah Masci: It's been so fun. When I started my course back in 2019, my initial cohort of students were mostly web designers, because that's who I was.
Michelle Lynne: That's who you spoke to.
Sarah Masci: Yeah, exactly. But then over the years, I was like, this course is, I don't teach web design at all in my course. I teach the model of how to structure this. And so I'm like, it's applicable to anyone. And so like I said, we've served thousands of people now since 2019, and it's just so fun to see. And they also are able to kind of collaborate with each other now that they're like, oh, I do bookkeeping in a day. Oh, I do web design in a day. Okay, so then they start hiring each other and it's just awesome.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, and it's because they're trusted.
Sarah Masci: Yep.
Michelle Lynne: It's like, okay, you've got your shizzle together, because you did what I did. I understand it, even though it's a different industry. Let's collaborate however we can.
Sarah Masci: Yeah.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, I love that. And you're developing a community.
Sarah Masci: Mm-hmm.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah. Oh, I love that, Sarah, that is super cool. Well, you know, I'd love to talk about all things business related. Like this, I could probably talk about and pick your brain for another hour. But in the interest of saving time, and honoring time for you and I and our audience, let's dive into the next segment, which is a rapid-fire Q&A. So it's a lot of fun. And it just allows the audience to get to know you just a little bit on a different level.
Sarah Masci: Okay.
Michelle Lynne: You ready? Something fun. Okay, let's start with, what is your morning routine?
Sarah Masci: Morning routine, I wake my boys up at 5:45 in the morning, my two high school boys, and get them out of bed and then I come straight into my, well, I make my coffee and then I get ready to work, from 6am to 7am are my best, best cheapest working hours and then I help my littler boys get ready for school and then I'm back at my desk at 8:00 and I like to get a lot of work done in the morning. So nothing fancy. Coffee, let the dogs out, and that's pretty much it.
Michelle Lynne: There you go. That works. It's efficient and effective. What was your favorite subject in school?
Sarah Masci: Math.
Michelle Lynne: I have no words for that. If you couldn't be in the profession that you're in right now, what would you be doing?
Sarah Masci: If I could be in a different profession?
Michelle Lynne: Uh huh. Anything other than this?
Sarah Masci: So the one thing that I've always been interested in and wanting to do is be an architect.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, there you go. And there's your math.
Sarah Masci: Yes. Math and design and all of that. Yeah.
Michelle Lynne: There you go. What is your favorite ice cream flavor?
Sarah Masci: Um, cookies and cream or peanut butter.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, yum.
Sarah Masci: Or together.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah. There's really not a bad ice cream flavor. What is your favorite productivity hack?
Sarah Masci: Um, oh, productivity hack? Well, I guess maybe, I don't really have a productivity hack. I honestly, I do Pomodoro, I do like co-working sessions with my students. We sit down for an hour, turn on the clock, and go for an hour. So that, I get a lot done that way.
Michelle Lynne: Well, that and even just from your six to seven in the morning. Get the kids up, hide, get work done. That's awesome. Okay, if you could have one superpower, what would it be?
Sarah Masci: Gosh, I should have prepared for these questions.
Michelle Lynne: No, there's no way to prepare. That's why they're just rapid-fire Q&A. That's half the fun, half of my fun.
Sarah Masci: My superpower would be to be anywhere that I needed to be instantly.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, there you go. Yeah. Be me up, Scotty. Okay, do you have any tattoos?
Sarah Masci: Nope.
Michelle Lynne: What would you pick for your last meal?
Sarah Masci: Mexican something.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah. Something cheesy.
Sarah Masci: Yeah, definitely.
Michelle Lynne: What has been your least favorite job that you have ever held?
Sarah Masci: Um, I don't have a least favorite job. But I would have to probably say my corporate job because I was just miserable being in a nine-to-five. I was working in utility management.
Michelle Lynne: There you go. Yeah. Nine to five. I get it. When was the last time you laughed until you almost peed yourself?
Sarah Masci: It's been, it's been too long. Probably a few weeks at least.
Michelle Lynne: It comes and goes right?
Sarah Masci: It's been a few weeks and sick kids and there hasn't been a lot of laughing.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, that doesn't sound like a lot of fun.
Sarah Masci: I would say probably the last time we were with our group of friends, which was Labor Day weekend. So early September.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah, it's been a while. Well, girl, that little one needs to start feeling better so you guys can get out and make some fun and laughter again.
Sarah Masci: Yes, this weekend. Yes, we're planning on doing some fun stuff this weekend.
Michelle Lynne: Oh, good. Well, I hope you laugh until you almost be yourself.
Sarah Masci: I hope so too.
Michelle Lynne: Okay, last one. What scares the hell out of you?
Sarah Masci: Not very much. Spiders.
Michelle Lynne: Yeah. I hear you there.
Sarah Masci: Really, like, spiders always used to scare me, but I guess not as much anymore. Now that I have four boys, I'm kind of immune to all of that. But I used to not go in my basement because there was like spiders down there.
Michelle Lynne: Well, that's a good one to be afraid of. I'm with you there. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for being here today. I've loved hearing all about these VIP Days. And you really kind of inspired some new thoughts on my behalf. That's super fun. And I know our audience has loved everything that you've shared. So can you share with them how they can connect with you, please?
Sarah Masci: Yeah, yeah. So I have a lot of different ways that we can kind of, I have a free checklist if you're thinking about wanting to do VIP Days, and you just kind of want to dip your toe into it and see like what it's all about, I have a VIP Day checklist. And then I also have a QuickStart program, which is $37. Just like try it out, see if you like it, and if you don't, then it's $37.
Michelle Lynne: Right.
Sarah Masci: So you can find both of those on my website at sarahmasci.com. And I also do have a free masterclass on there that you can find. You can navigate to anything from sarahmasci.com. If you want to connect with me personally and chat with me, Instagram is the best place to do that. And then my Instagram handle is just my name, Sarah Masci.
Michelle Lynne: Awesome. And that's spelled M-A-S-C-I.
Sarah Masci: Correct.
Michelle Lynne: We'll make sure that all of that's in the show notes so that anybody who's driving and listening to this does not have to navigate without taking their hands off the wheel. So thank you, I'll definitely make sure all of those are in there. So for those of you who could benefit from even more resources surrounding the business of running your interior design business, join our growing community on Facebook's private group. It's called the Interior Designers Business Launchpad. And yeah, yeah, I know, it's Facebook and not everybody's a big fan. But you could just create like a little ninja profile if you're not on Facebook and just come hang out with us because it's a great community. I go live once a week with some live training. And that's where we also hold our badass free five-day workshops a few times a year. It's called Rolling in the Dough, how to qualify, quote, and close high-end clients while you're baking the profits into the project. So come on over and visit. And in the meantime, thank you so much for being here, Sarah.
Sarah Masci: Yes. Thank you, Michelle. This was wonderful.
Michelle Lynne: Hey, y'all. If you love the show and find it useful, I would really appreciate it if you would share with your friends and followers. And if you like what you're hearing, want to put a face with a name and get even more business advice, then join me in my Facebook group, the Interior Designers Business Launchpad. Yeah, I know it's Facebook, but just come on in for the training and then leave without scrolling your feed. It's fun. I promise you'll enjoy it. And finally, I hear it's good for business to get ratings on your podcast. So please drop yours on whatever platform you use to listen to this. We're all about community over competition. So let's work on elevating our industry one designer at a time. See you next time.