Episode 74: Think Like a Woman to Sell Better with Dr. Nadia Brown


Show Notes


Dr. Nadia Brown is a sales strategist, consultant, trainer, and founder of The Doyenne Agency. She brings over fifteen years of leadership experience, powerful conversations, achieving goals, and respect for people, to develop a comprehensive sales process to increase closing rates and satisfied client retention.

Dr. Nadia believes that using what is inherent in us as women, helps us sell better and more authentically. In this episode, Dr. Nadia shares how she overcame the fear of selling, ways to supercharge our sales courage to get to where we want to be, and why courage may be THE most critical sales quality we need to succeed.

To learn more about working with Dr. Nadia and her team, visit www.thedoyenneagency.com and find her on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, and Twitter.



The 3rd Annual Interior Design Business Success Summit will be October 12-14, 2022. Visit www.designedforthecreativemind.com/summit for more details and to reserve your ticket.


About Michelle

Michelle Lynne began her interior design career after spending more than two decades working in Corporate America. She began in the home staging arena and has since built a successful, award-winning, full-service interior design firm, employing talented designers and serving clients across the country.

In the summer of 2018, Michelle began focusing on a big gap she saw missing in the interior design industry: teaching interior designers how to run the business of an interior design business. She now engages in private coaching and leads an in-depth, 12-month group coaching program, both options focus on teaching designers profitable processes, systems, strategies, and mindset needed to run a streamlined, profitable interior design firm.

Her motto is simple: we rise by lifting others.



Connect with Michelle

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Michelle Lynne:  Welcome to Designed for the Creative Mind, a podcast for interior designers and creative entrepreneurs to run their business with purpose, efficiency, and passion. Because, while every design is different, the process should remain the same. Prepare yourself for some good conversations with amazing guests, a dash of Jesus and a touch of the woowoo, and probably a swear word or two. If you're ready to stop trading your time for money and enjoy your interior design business, you are in the right place. I'm your host, Michelle Lynne.


Michelle Lynne:  Hello, hello, hello, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I have a fabulous guest today that I'm excited to introduce to you. My name is Michelle Lynne. And I want to welcome Dr. Nadia Brown to our podcast today. Hello, Dr. Nadia.


Nadia Brown: Hi, Michelle. Thanks for having me.


Michelle Lynne:  Absolutely. Y'all, let me tell you what a badass this woman is. And this is just the short version, okay. Dr. Nadia is a sales strategist, a consultant, a trainer, and the founder of the Doyenne Agency. This is a sales agency that works with business owners, companies, and corporations to multiply revenue and awaken the consistent closer within your sales team. And it's using the Consistent Sales Method™, which is trademarked by the way, because it is that cool. Dr. Nadia helps women learn to play the career game in business to advance their careers and their professions. And, girl, I think that that is just a perfect lead-in to this audience of mostly women entrepreneurs. And just being able to relate to the female in a business environment is such a such a unique, but powerful position to be in. So thank you so much for sharing your information with us. So tell me a little bit about your background. How did you get into this arena?


Nadia Brown: I laugh because it's crazy. And I think, even when I think about my own career trajectory, I never thought I would be doing sales, at all.


Michelle Lynne:  Right? Because there's kind of a sleazy connotation with sales back in the day.


Nadia Brown: It is. And when I think about my early career, like when I graduated and started in corporate America, I was in engineering and IT. I was an IT nerd. Like, literally at one point in my career, I worked in a basement. With a bunch of machines, we didn't really have to talk to too many people.


Michelle Lynne:  That's funny. That's great for an introvert, huh? But being in sales, you have to come out of the basement.


Nadia Brown: Yeah, it really just, over the years. So you know, I had that early career and then I eventually left and started my own business. And when I did, initially I was working with women leaders in corporate who were in predominant male industries, because that's where I had been in my corporate career. And just really, how do they, you know, how do they lead in a way where they can still be themselves, but still be respected and all that kind of stuff. So it gets kind of tricky.


Michelle Lynne:  It does. I don't know if you know, about my background, I came out of two different corporate industries, leading multimillion dollar business units. So like, what you're talking to me, takes me back to a little bit of PTSD.


Nadia Brown: Right? I remember, it was crazy. So I did that. And one of the things that I found once I left and was, you know, now my own boss, if you will, was, I was terrible at sales. I just wanted to do my thing. Which was work with my ladies, written a book, training, traveling, and all the things that look really cute on social media, but behind the scenes, girl, it was a hot mess. And it was because I was not great at sales, but I just had so much mindset stuff around sales, and, you know, being sleazy and not being manipulative, because I just could not, I still cannot believe, because I still see some crazy stuff in the industry, where if I'm a coach and I'm inviting someone to work with me in a coaching relationship, but during the sales conversation, I beat you down. You know?


Michelle Lynne:  Yes.


Nadia Brown: And then I'm surprised that we have issues with our actual coaching relationship. Right, right. It's like, it's just mind-blowing. But I also realized I needed to fix it. So my first book, Leading Like A Lady, How To Shatter Your Inner Glass Ceiling. So I literally Michelle, I'm on stages, I'm traveling, I'm encouraging women, you know, to shatter your inner glass ceiling, go out, you know, do all that rah, rah, rah, literally, I'm sitting there one day, and I'm like, girlfriend, you have some glass ceilings of your own you need to shatter, right?


Michelle Lynne:  Right? Yes.


Nadia Brown: You need to address this and so I did. I made the commitment to myself that I was going to figure this out. And as part of that journey, I did. I never thought though, that me figuring it out, would lead to me working with women in that capacity. I just figured, you know, I'm gonna figure this out and I'm just going to continue to do the work that I did. But in the process of that journey of Nadia learning how to sell, I was actually invited to be part of another team. Now, I have to put this caveat out there, I did not know I was going to be doing sales in that additional invitation. I did not know.


Michelle Lynne:  Oh, the universe conspires.


Nadia Brown: I thought that I was going to get to do some leadership consulting, and, you know, I may get some coaching around sales. You know, we did talk about that, right? But it was like, Okay, I could do that. Like, I get a sales coach? Great. Um, yeah, I got way more than I bargained for. But it actually ended up being such a blessing. I started doing sales conversations, quite by accident. And then I realized I actually loved having sales conversations. And one day one of the owners, he calls me he's like, Dr. Nadia, do you realize that over the past three days, you've brought in, like, six figures? And I was like, no, I didn’t because I wasn't tracking anything. I didn't know how to do that. Right? I was just talking to people, just talking to people, extending the invitation. So it really started me down a path of thinking about what that meant. And then there were others around me within the company who saw that, and they started reaching out, and I started supporting them. So when I left that organization, those people were like, still tapping me on my shoulder. Like, I don't think you can just keep that all to yourself. And they really encouraged me to share that and that would have been, about five years ago, we shifted and launched the agency. So now we have a bigger focus on sales. But that was kind of the process. I never thought that this is where I would be today.


Michelle Lynne:  I understand that completely. But when you're good at something, and it helps others, you have no choice but to share that. And especially women with lifting women, that to me is just like so close to my heart. Let me back up a quick second. And you're Dr. Nadia, what is your doctoral degree in?


Nadia Brown: Organizational leadership.


Michelle Lynne:  And how does that play into all the things?


Nadia Brown: So I got this degree in leadership because I was really fascinated. You know, being a corporate, you see a lot of things, right? And I'm like, why? How?


Michelle Lynne:  Who are they sleeping with to get that position?


Nadia Brown: Something. At one point I was like, clearly incompetence is a requirement for leadership. I was hot mess, so.


Michelle Lynne:  No, the others were a hot mess it sounds like.


Nadia Brown: So then I, you know, I embarked on this journey to get a degree, I will say, again, I got this degree, not so much because I wanted to be Dr. Nadia, but mainly because I promised my grandmother, I made a promise to my granny at age 17 that I would do that.


Michelle Lynne:  Oh, that's awesome.


Nadia Brown: So I decided to fulfill this promise to her sooner rather than later. So I'm on this journey. So then it was like, well pick something fun, because it was like, I knew I didn't want to be a college professor. And I wasn't 100% sure was what I was going to do with this degree. So I picked leadership, I was just fascinated about leaders, about what made organizations run and operate. I did my dissertation on women leaders, because it was like, Okay, I get the whole leadership, which is mostly as we were taught about men and masculinity and all that kind of, how did the women roll you know, and so that's what opened up that whole world for me around leadership was, you know, my doctorate.


Michelle Lynne:  So you kind of merged that with selling like a woman. Like, how do you think like a woman to sell better, using like, what's inherently in us that's different from men, but also probably some of the textbook life experience that you've brought?


Nadia Brown: Yes. So I have a new book coming out, so excited. It's Sell Like A Lady, How to Master Sales with Dignity, Class, and Grace.


Michelle Lynne:  Oh, I love that. It gives us permission to be women and sell like a badass.


Nadia Brown: Yes. Because we're really good at it. But when we then think about it, and we think about what a lot of us have been taught and how we've been taught to sell, we're like, eww, I don't want to do that, right?


Michelle Lynne:  Yeah, I can tell you, my husband, who's a dude, obviously a dude, he feels the same way. He's like, I do not want to be pushy and smarmy, and all the things. So it's sometimes a universal topic. But I love that you've drilled down to women because we do have our own uniquenesses.


Nadia Brown: We do. And we, we like to be heard. Because, you know, we've had those sales interactions where we're the buyer, and it's like eww, and it's just really given us permission to show up as our authentic selves, to be ourselves. I tell people, you have a sales conversation, my husband hears, you know, I'm working all the time, like this weekend, we did sales for an event. And I'm here giggling and laughing and sometimes the ladies were crying. And, you know, he's like, what are you doing? I'm like, Babe, I'm working. It sounds like I'm on the phone or, you know, on Zoom with a girlfriend, because, but I just show up as Nadia. I have permission to just show up as me. So if we ever have a sales conversation, we're probably gonna giggle, we may even cry. And if it's a good fit for us to work together, then great.


Michelle Lynne:  But doesn't that make it so much more enjoyable when you go into whatever you're selling? So if you're selling a coaching program, then you have that rapport. If you're selling a widget, you know that you're selling them the right widget for the right use.


Nadia Brown: Yes. And they know it. That you have fewer instances where you have, you know, buyer's remorse, or because sometimes what we're selling is a significant investment. It's nothing to sneeze at, right? And so our services, you know, sometimes it's redoing your website, or you know, some done for you, whatever. And so it's significant. But when you have that conversation, and it's so authentic, it's so natural, it's such a connection, people are excited to work with you and you have fewer, I won't say you won't have any, but you tend to have fewer where people wake up the next morning like, oh, my God, what have I done? Like, they're excited.


Michelle Lynne:  Yeah. She twisted my arm, that bitch.


Nadia Brown: See what she did there? I don't think I like it. I don't want it.


Michelle Lynne:  When I first started my paid program, in the iteration it is now, The Interior Design Business Bakery. I literally, I can sell ice to an Eskimo, right? And so I talked to a couple women and I knew they needed the program. Like I know they needed it. But it wasn't in their essence at that moment.


Nadia Brown: Yep.


Michelle Lynne:  So like when they came back later, and they were like, you know, I just don't think it's the right timing. I was like, absolutely. That's probably on me. I know you need it. But maybe right now, isn't it. So yeah, I think it's really, really key that we listen as much as we, more than we talk actually.


Nadia Brown: Yes. Absolutely.


Michelle Lynne:  Except for the giggling. That's always fun.


Nadia Brown: Giggling is good.


Michelle Lynne:  So how did you find that being yourself, like, did you have an aha moment where you're just like, Screw this, I'm not going to try to step into the sales voice and the person of reason, I'm just gonna be myself. Like, what was that like for you? Was it a light bulb went off? Or did you just ease into it, and you look back and you're like, oh, that's what I've been doing and that's what's been working?


Nadia Brown: Yes, it was more of that. So I mentioned a team that I got to work with, it was owned by two men, go figure.


Michelle Lynne:  Maybe shows you what you didn't want.


Nadia Brown: And so it started, I remember, like, starting out, it would be like, Nadia, just reach out to Michelle, see what questions she has. And I'm like, okay, I can do that. Right?


Michelle Lynne:  Yeah.


Nadia Brown: Because they took the sales part out of it. And it was just, you know, just call Michelle and just talk to her, I'm like, I can do that. So I call her, you know, and ask whatever questions and answer them or if I couldn't answer them, I'm like, well, you know, let me find out, I'll get back to you. Because I'm still new. I don't know what's going on. And it just, that was kind of how it started. And then, you know, I started to have more and more conversations. And I remember being given a script, I think this is when the inner rebel came out. And I was like, Okay, so, you know, for a couple conversations, I'll try it. And then I'm like, I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say, you know, and I started to kind of reworking it.


Michelle Lynne:  It wasn't authentic, right?


Nadia Brown: Because I'm like, I would never say that. But I would say this, or I would see the pieces of it that made sense to me to include in the conversation. I would include it and I would tweak it and I'm like, okay, I'm good. And then that started to convert. And then people started buying. And then the owners were like really excited and they would be hyping me up, you know, like oh my gosh, you know, that whole thing, but it really was, again, because I just was still so, I think I was in learner mode, and wasn't so in the mode of trying to necessarily put a lot of pressure to figure this out in that moment that it was one of the owners, he called one day, again, he was like, Hey, do you notice how you don't sell, like us? Like he was the one, I don't even know if he was doing it on purpose, but he was the one that started pointing it out. Because there were times when the three of us would be on calls together sometimes, and he was just like, you have your own style, and it's not like us. And it clearly wasn't, like, I'm definitely not. But it was just as effective. And I think when he started pointing out those little things, it caused me to start paying closer attention. Like, you know what? He's right.


Michelle Lynne:  And you were okay with that. You didn't feel like an outsider, or an imposter trying to be like them.


Nadia Brown: No. Because my results spoke for themselves, like I was selling just as much as they were. Which they were excited about that. Whatever you're doing is working, don't change a thing, right?


Michelle Lynne:  So how did that translate to you going to work for yourself?


Nadia Brown: Well, I'd had a business before. So this was kind of in that, I never went into that thinking that I would be as involved in their business as I was. So I was there for about a year or so, a little over a year. And I was just like, you know what, I need to get back to my girl, like, I need to get back to Nadia's work. I don't want to do this forever. It's been great. I've learned a lot of great lessons. And so I was like, I need to get back and really focusing on my business and the work that I'm doing in my business. And so that was what kind of prompted me to just leave. And I've figured out fairly quickly that it wasn't, there wasn't an option to do both. Like it was either, you're gonna have to have a clean cut and just go back. There isn't an option. So that's what I did. And it took about a year of me kind of waffling though because I got back, and I'm doing my thing, but I have this new thing that I don't know what to do with. Because in my brain it was leadership or sales, you don't do both. And I felt, I have a doctorate in leadership, like seriously, it was just like, and do I really want to take on sales and lead with that? Because sales still has such a negative connotation around it. And am I bold enough to be like, You know what, I'm going to lead a sales agency, and we're going to lead with that? Obviously, I made that decision. But it took a while to just say, Yeah, we're gonna do that.


Michelle Lynne:  No, I love hearing that. Because I've known you for the 20 minutes we've been, you know, like two minutes before prep, and then all of this, I'm like, what do you mean, are you bold enough? Like, yeah. But I think that that also resonates with the audience is that, just because that's the persona that we put on, or that's the persona that we have now, it has to start somewhere with one step of courage leading towards the next step, and the next step, and the next step.


Nadia Brown: Totally.


Michelle Lynne:  How did you turn that self-doubt into confidence?


Nadia Brown: Oh, my gosh.


Michelle Lynne:  Was there like a magic wand that you wave?


Nadia Brown: There were, I have some really good friends. So I had friends who, they saw before I did, I'll be honest. And so I had had a couple. So I had one, she had a, she's a copywriter, she had a training program at that time, and she calls me up one day, and she's like, so hey, Nadia, I'm going to take the month of July off, and we're going, my husband, and I, think they were married at that time. We're gonna go to Japan for an entire month. And I'm not going to be around to serve my community. So I would love for you to come in and teach sales. And I'm going to need you to, you know, have a free gift for them. Because I had nothing, you know, some resource to give them. Let me know if you want to talk and we can brainstorm on what that would be, right? And I was like, Okay, I think I saw what you did there. I had another girlfriend who was like, yeah, hey, Nadia. So, um, can you write one of those conversation guides for me and maybe do a training for me and my team on sales? You know, I'll pay you, just, you know, let me know what that looks like. And I was like, what? And so I do it, and she pays me and I'm excited. And then one day, I'm talking to my husband about it. Telling him, I'm all excited, I'm all geeked. I'm like, I just did this, and I did this.


Michelle Lynne:  And I got paid for it.


Nadia Brown: Right. And so he looks at me, and he's like, so let me get this straight. People are reaching out to you to support them with sales? And I said yes. And they're willing to pay you for it? And you actually enjoy it? And I was like, yes, isn't that amazing? You know, I'm all excited. I didn't even realize he was leading me.


Michelle Lynne:  He was selling you.


Nadia Brown: Oh, girl, he just put the smack down because then he goes, so you're not going to do this because you're afraid of offending people. Is that what I'm hearing? I was like, I don't think I want to talk to you anymore right now. I'm just gonna go to my room.


Michelle Lynne:  Tail between your legs like, oh, man.


Nadia Brown: Right. I was like, I hate when he does that. But he was right. And so it was like, okay, all right, what do I need to do?


Michelle Lynne:  That is awesome.


Nadia Brown: Yeah.


Michelle Lynne:  So how did you overcome that fear of selling? I mean, other than him just kind of giving you that smackdown?


Nadia Brown: It was, one thing I did was, I had to remember that I'd done this before, and I didn't die. You lived. I think the other thing was to just practice it, to get out there. Because having the conversations helps to build a confidence. So it was just like, okay, Nadia, what are the things that you know to do? What are the questions you would want to ask someone so that you could get a feel of if they're a good fit? So start with there, you know, ask powerful questions. What are some of the things that you would share? And just really kind of putting that framework together, so it wasn't even a full whatever, it was on a sticky note with some bullet points.


Michelle Lynne:  To hell with the business plan, I just need a sticky note.


Nadia Brown: Oh, I need, I'm good. And to really just kind of put that out there and to start having the conversations. I eventually did hire support, because I just was so in it, I was too in it in my head to see it.


Michelle Lynne:  Yes.


Nadia Brown: So to just help get this vision of what was trying to come forth out of my brain. And so together, we put together our vision plan. And I was like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing.


Michelle Lynne:  There is a framework.


Nadia Brown: There is a framework.


Michelle Lynne:  That is awesome.


Nadia Brown: There is a vision. And I was like, I don't want to be a coach. I was like, I'm clear. I don't want to do that. I want to do this. And when we started, we had one offer, and it was like, Nadia, just talk to people. And just focus on getting your first six clients. Don't focus on creating a website, don't focus on all this stuff. Just have conversations with people. And I did that. It was like put your blinders on, you could get to do all that stuff later. But we provided sales support for women, service-based business owners. And we came in alongside them and we were like, we're going to take this piece off your plate. We're gonna do that. And you get to focus on doing what you love. And that was where I started was actually doing sales for clients.


Michelle Lynne:  So you were like a Salesforce for others.


Nadia Brown: Yes.


Michelle Lynne:  Dang, I wish I would have known about you years ago.


Nadia Brown: That's how I got started. I mean, now I do other things. But in the beginning, I had the one offer.


Michelle Lynne:  But that's where you find the people's pain point. Is the one that you overcame. So what sort of, I don't want to go too, too far down a bunny trail, but what sort of, I want to say mindset work, or what sort of work did you do on yourself, to kind of give you that courage to own what you were afraid of? Does that make sense?


Nadia Brown: Oh my gosh. Yes, a lot of, so diving more deeply into my own money story. You know, what are those internal conversations?


Michelle Lynne:  Oh, that's a whole other podcast, huh?


Nadia Brown: Right. Focusing on my own triggers, which a lot of times, you know, tied to my money stories, and really this whole thing around deserving. Like, do I deserve and who does she think she is? Like those stories that sometimes come up.


Michelle Lynne:  Yeah.


Nadia Brown: And, you know, doing that money, or not even money, but like you said, mindset work. And yeah, so it was like, because there's that whole comparison thing. You're like, I'm not this big name. You know, who am I? I'm just Nadia.


Michelle Lynne:  Yeah, but you're Dr. Nadia.


Nadia Brown: Right.


Michelle Lynne:  But it's also like, for those of us who don't have that, like letters behind our name, whatever they are, we feel even smaller. So it's nice to hear that individuals who have that quote, unquote, authority, feel the same thing. Like, we all put our pants on the same way, or dress or skirt or whatever.


Nadia Brown: Yes. And we all go through, we all have our own stories, so I was really taking the time to connect with those stories. And is that true? And you know, doing the work of like, no, it's not true.


Michelle Lynne:  It's a bullshit story.


Nadia Brown: Yes. And then taking the action because the actions actually eradicate the fear because you're like, Oh, I'm gonna go you know, like, give this talk and what if I fall on stage, right? And you get out there and it's amazing. You're all excited and you didn't fall and you're like, Oh, that was a bunch of crap. I call it the scandilicious drama going on in your head.


Michelle Lynne:  The scandilicious drama. I love that. I'm writing that down the scandilicious drama. I call mine the committee. Just kind of going wah, wah, wah. But the scandilicious drama is amazing.


Nadia Brown: So much drama going on.


Michelle Lynne:  But you know what? I'd say, everybody listening, if they're honest with themselves can relate to that.


Nadia Brown: We all have it. And like to your point, even at this point in my career, where I've now, you know, sold millions of dollars and done all these things. And it's great. And I have all these accolades and proof, the receipts if you will, there are still days when the committee and the drama shows up, and I'm like, I don't know if I can do this. I'm like, seriously, Nadia? Are we still here?


Michelle Lynne:  Yep, you have to give your own swift kick in the booty.


Nadia Brown: Mm hmm.


Michelle Lynne:  Okay, is there a way that you can supercharge your sales courage today, if you're not where you want to be?


Nadia Brown: Yes, I would say, find an action that you can take. For me, action helps. It's almost like that proof that whatever is happening in my head is not true. To find the truth of what's really going on. And then I will also say, take a moment and look back. Because I think that we are so forward focused that how often do we really stop to celebrate how far we've come and remind ourselves. So it could be reading client testimonials, or watching the videos. Sometimes it's not even about the actual sale itself. Because a lot of times I feel like that our conversation when it comes to sales is around like worthiness and you know, especially charging this whatever our investment is and all that stuff. And it's like reminding yourself of the impact that you have.


Michelle Lynne:  Oh, I love that. Yeah, in interior design, it's like, we're changing lives, not just rooms. And you have to be able to, and sometimes just having, like your friends point out to you. This is not just fluffing pillows, and picking out pretty paint, y'all.


Nadia Brown: It's not. And when you think about the impact that you have on a family's life, when you come in and do your work, whether it's interior design or your coaching, and then you think about the ripple effect that you have. It's like, first of all, for many of us, our work is priceless. The work that we do and the impact that we have. So any number that you put to it isn't high enough.


Michelle Lynne:  Well, that and also, I think that in some, when I see, especially with women, is that we assign our value to our services, like I can't charge that much. I'm not worth that much. And you know, my response to them is like Babe, you are a child of God. You are immeasurably worthy.


Nadia Brown: Yes.


Michelle Lynne:  The services you provide is what you're putting your value on. And let's break that down a little bit further as to how it impacts. So I love what you're talking about, is just look back sometimes.


Nadia Brown: Yes, sometimes we just need to remind ourselves of the impact that we've had, what we can do. And I always tell people, you can never charge what you're worth, because exactly to your point you're a child of God, you're priceless. So then, like you said, separating that, from you, from the services that you provide, and you know, going through whatever exercise you need to do to do that. But yeah, it's just sometimes we really do get in our own way.


Michelle Lynne:  The scandilicious drama in our head.


Nadia Brown: It starts to win Academy Awards and stuff.


Michelle Lynne:  And then you can thank the committee for the scandilicious drama.


Nadia Brown: Yes, you can thank the committee. Like, seriously?


Michelle Lynne:  Oh my gosh, it's hilarious. So would you say, so kind of like coming full circle, would you say courage is the most critical sales quality that we need?


Nadia Brown: Hands down.


Michelle Lynne:  Why?


Nadia Brown: It takes a lot of courage to do what we do, you know, especially when you're a service-based business owner. Because there's a product and then there's a service and we're so, a lot of us are so intimately involved in that. I think it's overlooked. We're not really acknowledged for how much courage it does take to put yourself out there, to market, to have sales conversations, to deliver to do all the things that we do. And it's one of the reasons why I talk about it so much because there is that courage, I want you to acknowledge it, I want you to remember it. And I also want you to remember that even in the sales conversation, we cannot make anyone buy. We can influence. We can do a lot of things, but we can't make them buy so we can only take ownership for our part of that conversation because ultimately, the decision rests with your buyer, right?


Michelle Lynne:  And it's not a fail if they don't buy.


Nadia Brown: No. Because like you said, sometimes it's not that they're not a good fit, or you can't serve them. They're just not ready yet. So they have to go through their own, they bring their own stuff to the table too.


Michelle Lynne:  Their own scandilicious drama.


Nadia Brown: They do. And sometimes we just need to give them a little more time, love on them a little bit more, nurture that relationship. So don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.


Michelle Lynne:  Right. Not right away.


Nadia Brown: Get in our heads and like, oh, forget you and no, no, no. Stay connected, follow-up, build that relationship, because there's so many times that people come back and they're like, Okay, now I'm ready.


Michelle Lynne:  Yeah, because we also don't know what's going on in the rest of their life.


Nadia Brown: Right.


Michelle Lynne:  You know, what are they juggling personally? What are they juggling financially? Like, all the things. Especially the past few years, holy cow.


Nadia Brown: Right. There's been a whole lot of juggling going on.


Michelle Lynne:  Yes, exactly. Oh my gosh, Nadia, I could talk this for ages. So we will talk offline in just a few minutes.


Nadia Brown: Okay.


Michelle Lynne:  I love to talk business, but I also love to have fun. So this could be some of the giggling, I'm gonna try not to make you cry. So the next quick segment is like a fast, rapid fire, first thing that comes to your head Q&A session.


Nadia Brown: All right.


Michelle Lynne:  All right, you ready?


Nadia Brown: I'm ready.


Michelle Lynne:  We're gonna start off with a softball. What's your favorite ice cream?


Nadia Brown: There is an oatmeal cookie ice cream that is only made, well, I don't want to say only, but our local ice cream shop makes it. I always go out and get that one.


Michelle Lynne:  I love oatmeal cookies. I love eating oatmeal cookie dough. Oh my gosh. Okay, we're not going down that path. When was the last time you laughed until you almost peed yourself?


Nadia Brown: Probably yesterday.


Michelle Lynne:  Which is the joy that you just exude to the audience, love that.


Nadia Brown: Thank you.


Michelle Lynne:  If you could have dinner with anybody past or present, who would you invite?


Nadia Brown: Oprah. I have so many questions.


Michelle Lynne:  There's something there, right? What's your favorite book?


Nadia Brown: Oh, that one's a hard one. Oh, I'm an avid reader. I'm gonna go with Referral of a Lifetime.


Michelle Lynne:  Referral of a Lifetime. Is that a business book?


Nadia Brown: That's a business book.


Michelle Lynne:  Referral of a lifetime. I love getting this. I write these down. How about a non-business book? I'm looking for suggestions.


Nadia Brown: It's like, tell me Nadia, what should I read, girl?


Michelle Lynne:  What are you reading now?


Nadia Brown: Let me see what's going on. I haven't read any fiction recently. Someone just texted me yesterday. She was like, I didn't know I was gonna like romance. And I was like, you know, when was the last time you read a good fiction book, Nadia?


Michelle Lynne:  Yeah, no, seriously, the last couple of months, I've been very intentional to pick up books that are not business, they're not self-help. It's just like, let me escape for a minute because my brain is so full. All right. Well, maybe I'll give you some referrals. What is your biggest pet peeve?


Nadia Brown: When people treat others bad. Rude and disrespectful.


Michelle Lynne:  Agreed. What's one piece of advice you'd give your 20-year-old self?


Nadia Brown: It's not that deep. It is not that serious Nadia, just take a deep breath. Don't get so intense, like, chill out. It's gonna be okay.


Michelle Lynne:  I think it's the 20-year-old thing. We had to have everything figured out.


Nadia Brown: Yes. So much pressure.


Michelle Lynne:  So what is your biggest failure? And what did you learn from that experience?


Nadia Brown: Ooh, I would say my biggest failure was when after starting the business and starting to build a team, because I didn't have the whole sales thing dialed in, we ran out of money. So I had to have those conversations with the team like, I don't know how or when, but yeah, I'm gonna be able to pay you.


Michelle Lynne:  Ouch.


Nadia Brown: Terrible place to be. One of my biggest lessons, though, was I'm resilient. I can do hard things. I honored that, you know, we got it taken care of. And, you know, it led me to where I am today and learning sales. So I get it when people are like, I don't like this. I didn't either.


Michelle Lynne:  Yeah, owning your own business is not for the faint of heart.


Nadia Brown: Not at all.


Michelle Lynne:  Yeah, I don't know if I would have had, if I had known all of the components that go into it, I don't know if I would have had the balls to do it.


Nadia Brown: I don't either.


Michelle Lynne:  But on the other hand, I will say it's not like you have to jump in and do it all at once. It's like, we stair step into it. So it's kind of like a baby who crawls and then walks and then runs.


Nadia Brown: Yeah, and I think it helps when you look at your business that way because I think sometimes, we start the business and we're like six months in, and we think we need to be where some business that's 20 years in should be and it's like, no, no.


Michelle Lynne:  Yes. You know what, I'm either gonna do a training, presentation, or podcast or something about the life cycles of the business. Because it's true. You have to step back and say, you know what, you don't go from infancy to Dr. Nadia. There's a lot that goes in between it.


Nadia Brown: A lot.


Michelle Lynne:  I love that. What is one thing people would be surprised to know about you?


Nadia Brown: I don't know how surprising it would be, but I'm actually a big introvert. Huge.


Michelle Lynne:  Yeah, me too. Which is why we can have these one-on-one conversations pretty easily. But you get me in front of a big crowd, and then I have to go, like, roll up in the fetal position.


Nadia Brown: I'm so awkward at networking events is terrible.


Michelle Lynne:  Oh, I bet you've gotten a lot better at it. Have you done the Myers Briggs test?


Nadia Brown: I have.


Michelle Lynne:  Do you remember what you are?


Nadia Brown: I think it's INFJ.


Michelle Lynne:  I'm an INTJ. So yeah, little unicorns. Okay. We're gonna close up with, what is the best compliment you've ever received?


Nadia Brown: Oh, this was a recent one. It was, thank you for answering the call from the work that I do. Yeah.


Michelle Lynne:  Love that. Yeah, kind of just reminds you that you're exactly where you're supposed to be. Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed this. The time has flown by.


Nadia Brown: Totally.


Michelle Lynne:  I have to be cognizant of our audience. Like, shut up ladies. We're done. Well, thanks for being on the show. I know the audience has loved everything. What is the best way to connect with you? And then I will have that and any others in the show notes.


Nadia Brown: The best way would probably be our website, thedoyenneagency.com.


Michelle Lynne:  D-O-Y-E-N-N-E. D as in dog, O Y E Nancy, Nancy E. The Doyenne Agency.


Nadia Brown: Yes. And then we're also pretty active on Instagram. And that handle is iamdrnadia, I am Dr Nadia.


Michelle Lynne:  Perfect, perfect, perfect. Well, I'm gonna go stalk you a little bit more. But I'll make sure that those details and all the other places we can find you are in the show notes. And for those of you who can benefit from even more resources surrounding the business of running your interior design business, I've got a couple of options for you. October 12th, 13th, and 14th in Dallas, Texas, we have The Interior Design Business Success Summit. Third year, it's a very intimate, very in-depth summit. I have to say it's badass. Secondly, is we have our free Facebook group called The Interior Designers Business Launchpad. And yeah, I know it's Facebook, but it's the best place to run a group. So come join me over there anyway. And last but not least, if you want a mentor, I've got a year-long mentorship program in the Interior Design Business Bakery, you can find all of that stuff on designedforthecreativemind.com, which is the same title as this podcast so there's no reason for you to forget it. So until next time, thank you again, Dr. Nadia.


Nadia Brown: Thanks for having me. This was great.


Michelle Lynne:  Oh, absolutely. And we will see the rest of the audience next time, or technically you'll hear us next time.


Michelle Lynne:  Hey, y'all. If you love the show and find it useful, I would really appreciate it if you would share with your friends and followers. And if you like what you're hearing, want to put a face with a name and get even more business advice, then join me in my Facebook group, The Interior Designers Business Launchpad. Yeah, I know it's Facebook, but just come on in for the training and then leave without scrolling your feed. It's fun, I promise you'll enjoy it. And finally, I hear it's good for business to get ratings on your podcast. So please drop yours on whatever platform you use to listen to this. We're all about community over competition. So let's work on elevating our industry, one designer at a time. See you next time.

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