Episode 72: Structuring Your Business to Navigate in Any Economy

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Show Notes

Structuring your business the right way can help you navigate in any economy, no matter where you are in your interior design business. Whether you are just starting out or already a few years in, I am sharing ways for you to uplevel your business during these uncertain times. My intention today is to give you some inspiration and courage to keep going even through all the uncertainty. Because ultimately, the structure of your business to navigate in any economy all starts with you.

Michelle Lynne began her interior design career after spending more than two decades working in Corporate America. She began in the home staging arena and has since built a successful, award-winning, full-service interior design firm, employing talented designers and serving clients across the country.

In the summer of 2018, Michelle began focusing on a big gap she saw missing in the interior design industry: teaching interior designers how to run the business of an interior design business. She now engages in private coaching and leads an in-depth, 12-month group coaching program, both options focus on teaching designers profitable processes, systems, strategies, and mindset needed to run a streamlined, profitable interior design firm.

About Michelle

Her motto is simple: we rise by lifting others.

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Transcript

Michelle Lynne: Welcome to Designed for the Creative Mind, a podcast for interior designers and creative entrepreneurs to run their business with purpose, efficiency, and passion. Because, while every design is different, the process should remain the same. Prepare yourself for some good conversations with amazing guests, a dash of Jesus and a touch of the woowoo, and probably a swear word or two. If you're ready to stop trading your time for money and enjoy your interior design business, you are in the right place. I'm your host, Michelle Lynne.

Michelle Lynne: Hello, hello, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm so excited that you're here. And this time, I'm not actually saying I'm so excited that you're here because of my guest. But I'm so excited that you're here because I have an awesome topic that I want to discuss with you, just from my own experience, and from my own point of view, and it has to do with structuring your business to navigate in any economy. The past couple of months, as I've been talking to interior designers, when I went to the IDS, the Interior Design Society national conference, I was a speaker there. I just got back from the Design Influencers Conference. And of course, I'm talking to y'all through my free Facebook group, which is amazing. If you're not on there, check out the Interior Designers Business Launchpad. A month or two ago, we had a Rolling in the Dough workshop. And so the feedback that I've been getting over and over and over again, is a lot of fear. A lot of fear about this recession, or the upcoming recession, the inflation that's going on, the unknowns with the elections and all of that sort of jazz. And just for the record, I'm not going to get political. Technically, I hate them all. So how's that for not getting political? I'm very disappointed overall. So don't DM me and like trying to start a conversation because I just don't even, I just don't.

Anyway, I can talk about this, I feel like I'm very well qualified, because I actually, in 2008, I bought a house, I got married, I started my business, and then the market crashed. In that order. So 2008 was a really scary time in regards to, you know, in the regards to the economy, the recession, like everything was going to hell in a handbasket across the country. So I have a very unique perspective, because I'm still here. I'm still here, even after that, that really rough start, it was a good couple of years. But I want to share with you how structuring your business can help you navigate in any economy, because we can also talk about the pandemic, and how that has impacted the way we structure our business. And also going back a little bit here in Texas in 2013, we had a huge housing market explosion, that really changed another arm of my business. So let's keep this chronological. We will talk about 2008.

If you are just launching your business, or you're in the middle of launching your business, or you're not sure if you're going to launch your business because of all of the unknowns, let me just tell you that sometimes this is the best time to do it. Because for those of you who have the balls to do it, are going to excel over the individuals who are cowering under their pillows and not doing it. So a lot of your competition has already eliminated themselves. Start and be very intentional. It's actually a beautiful thing right now if you are starting and you are just being slow and steady wins the race. Right now, a lot of us who've been in business have more business than we know what to do with because of coming out of the pandemic. But starting your business right now can still pick up a good portion of the business that is to be had. Creating a solid foundation for your business is going to be the first step. It's just like building a house.

Okay, so create a website. And if you are one of the individuals that say yeah, Michelle, but I don't have any pictures. I don't have anything. You know what, those are just excuses. I'm calling you out with love. Those are just excuses. You can easily go over to your friend's house and do a before and after when you rearrange. Bring stuff over from your house, bring stuff over from your other friend's house and finish that particular space so that it looks complete. You can take photos with your iPhone. Is it suggested for the rest of your design career? No, but you have to start somewhere and sometimes done is better than perfect. Okay, so you can use the portrait, and I'm on iPhone, I know Android has a really badass camera as well. But you can put it in portrait and take, you can take some beautiful vignettes. You can stand back and take photos with natural lighting, and then you can still edit it in your photos section, you can adjust the lighting. Heck, I think you can even take pictures with filters from Instagram, and then you don't have to post them to Instagram, you can save them on your phone.

So you have the ability to create some basic images. You do not have to have 19 portfolios. I've been in business for a while, we redid my website a year or so ago. And I just discovered that they only put four portfolios on my, on my website. So it hasn't slowed business down, but it did piss me off. That's a whole different conversation. But you can just start with a handful of images and then you can recycle these images onto social media. When I started my business, social media was not much of a thing. So you actually have a leg up during this economic confusion compared to back in the day when I started my business. So you just need to get some images out there. Again, done is better than perfect.

Your website, there's so many websites that you can build on your own that are for very nominal levels of investment. I started mine on GoDaddy. I just thought, it's out there, we've got to start somewhere. It goes back to, and for those of you who've been in my circle for a while, I joke about my daughter, and if you're a mom, you understand this, you know what, so she's laying there, and then she's starting to learn how to roll over. You're cheering her on when they're learning how to rollover, okay, like, that's amazing. And then she starts to crawl. And that's amazing. And then she starts to walk. And that's amazing. And then she falls, and you don't call her a dumbass, you tell her to get back up, keep going, you've got this baby girl. Use those same encouraging tones to yourself. Because that's what your website's gonna look like. First, it's just gonna be like, it's just gonna come to life. And then it's going to roll over and have a little bit of activity. And then it's going to start to crawl and then it's going to start to walk. And then it's going to start to run and all the things and there are going to be times like right now with mine, like 20-something years in or 14, however many years. How long have I been in business? Whatever, since 2008. And right now, I'm not kicking myself because my developer screwed it up. I'm like, moving on and getting another developer not referring that one again, because there's so many, like, there's so many issues with it right now. So don't go look at my website, or my SEO as a good example. At this point it's pretty, but it's not very functional.

So you can still do the same thing with yours. GoDaddy, Wix, there's all sorts of things, there's templates that you can buy now, so you don't have to start from scratch. Okay, so just get your website started. It's going to be an ongoing process, but it started so you have a legitimate electronic portfolio. And then here's something that's imperative. In order for your website to be found, you have to do some search engine optimization. Some of the best things that you can particularly do is name all of the images that you are uploading into your website to a specific type of searchable term. It could be blue couch. Now, normally in interior design, you say blue sofa, but our general public would say blue couch. Or it could say, floral vignette, yellow floral vignette, or bohemian pillow or leather chair or anything along that line. So you can just name those so that when you upload them, I think it's the alt text, and then wherever you can plug it in, just give it a description. We're not grading for grammar, we are just looking for those keywords that and by keywords, I mean people are going to be searching them.

Now, for the record, I do not recommend you are the web developer for your business for the rest of your life. But if you are just starting out and you're bootstrapping it, you can do this. Okay, again, done is better than perfect. Now part of the key to having your website be alive is by making sure that you have a blog attached to your website. Why? Well, because if you don't get in and update your portfolio or your text or your bio photo or whatever for months and months and months, the Google thinks that your website is just dead. So if you can post a blog no, let me rephrase that. So when you post a blog once a month, if you have the bandwidth, as you're growing your business, do it twice a month, do it once a week, whatever you need to do. What you're doing is two things. One is your, you're getting Google juice for your website to be noticed from the Google. And then you're also setting yourself up as the trusted authority.

Now, again, I hear so many times, I can't do it, it's not perfect, or I can't do it, because I don't know how, okay, go to YouTube and figure it out. It's not rocket science. And in all reality, a lot of people don't read it. But if they read it, and they get a nugget, or that they see that you're doing it, or they skim it, and they understand, oh, she does know what she's doing. You don't have to be the best writer, you need to be a designer, but you need to be a designer who can actually take the time, and build out your website, so that you have more content.

Now, don't go using stock images. But you can use an image from another designer if you credit them. I highly recommend that you ask them about it as well say, hey, can I use this. Maybe you have friends in the industry. If nothing else, it's just, it's lifting each other up. If you feel better than do it with somebody across the country, so you don't feel like they're in competition. And then you're just gonna write about what you like, and what you don't like and why it works, or, you know, what's trending now and all the things. Or you can even say, Here's, you know, here's some images from some of my trade vendors. Don't go sending them to West Elm and all the things, I did that it's not a good idea. But here's some images that I've seen at High Point this last year, or that I've seen trending on Instagram or anything like that. We oftentimes complicate it, when it should be very, very simple. So use the KISS method, keep it simple, sweetie.

Okay, the cool thing is now, compared to in 2008 when I started my business, social media is a prevalent driver to referrals, to your website, and all the things. You can reuse the images you have on your portfolio in social media, you can even reuse your social media images in more posts. So go look at some of your favorite large designers who have like over 100,000 shares or 100,000 followers. Go look and you're gonna see, like that might be the same bar, outdoor living bar or something like that. But it's going to be from two different angles. It's the same thing, and they're just reusing it. Okay, so maybe you take an angle from the left, and you take an angle from the right and put the left one on your website and put the right one on your social media. But you can also put the right one on your social media three times, just break it up so that it's not on the same screen. And then you can just mention something different about it in that image.

So you're building this foundation so when people hear about you in the future, they can go back and see that you have this structure in place. Another key thing as you are structuring your business, in any economy, but this just goes, this is just saying that, even if it's a crummy economy, you can still be doing this and you can still be drawing clients. Okay, we're gonna talk about that in a second. One of the key secrets, I believe, it's not so much a secret, but one of the key assumptions that we make is that we need to be popular. Yeah. Okay. Let me, my clarity of thought is here. Oftentimes, we go for the vanity metrics of, oh, I have 10,000 followers. I have 3000 followers. Oh, I got 3700 likes on that, whatever it is. That does not matter. What matters is that people are getting connected with you, and that you can't lose them if Facebook or Instagram or TikTok or whomever changes their algorithm. How do you do that? You capture their email address. These are contacts that you own, you own these. Facebook goes away, how do you get in touch with anybody that was like your biggest follower? You don't. But at the same time, if you can get them into your smaller nucleus and you can nurture them, send them your blogs once a month. Okay, you don't have to go create another newsletter if you don't need to. I mean, we're all so inundated. But if you're giving them some sort of content that feels relevant, and it feels like it's coming from you, then they're more than likely to actually open it.

I just got an email today, we're talking about my Interior Design Business Success Summit, which here's a gratuitous plug, is coming up October 12th, 13th, and 14th. I'll make sure the link is in the bio. But if not, you can also just DM me on any of the platforms. But I sent out an email talking about one of the speakers. And one of my, one of the people who received it replied and said, oh, my goodness, you know, and she commented on her friend's name was the same as her maiden name or whatever, something like that. So it was really cool, because people, other than my mother, actually do open this. And that has held true because when people connect with you, and we're going to talk a little bit about how you can meet people and continue to navigate in the economy, then they are interested in you. Are they going to be somebody that hires you? Maybe not right away, maybe never. But they're also going to remember you and they could very easily refer you to somebody who will hire you.

So this email list is very important. You can just create something low maintenance, for them to sign up. Create something low maintenance for them to sign up so that you can capture their email address, drop them into, there's a variety of different platforms, some of them are free, but you need an email campaign management system, and then just email them. If you publish a blog once a week, push it out to your list once a week. If you publish a blog once a month, push it out once a month. Nobody likes spam, so just make sure it has some value.

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Michelle Lynne: So now you're kind of figuring out, okay, so now I've got a little bit of this online presence. I'm starting to build my email list. And y'all your email list is going to start probably as your mom and your best girlfriend, and maybe, you know, a sibling to begin with. It's going to grow from there. You just have to be intentional about it throughout the entire process.

Now, as you are structuring your business, it's important that you stop and you structure your business, is it just you? Are you going to want a team in the future? What is your potential exit strategy? Just thinking about some of these things, I wish I would have thought about earlier. Funny story, I tell this all the time. But funny story. I actually started my business, and my actual legal name was 'by Michelle Lynne'. And that was because I was doing home staging, organizing, and redesigned by Michelle Lynne. I figured Oh, if that doesn't work, I can do dog walking, car washing, and gift baskets by Michelle Lynne. Now, I think okay, well, I don't want everything to be by Michelle Lynne, because I have an amazing group. So we have rebranded and we are ML Interiors Group. Could it have been something a little bit more generic? Yes, but the rebranding thing gets tricky. So just stop and think. Maybe you want to be, I don't know, beautiful spaces, crazy faces. I'm just making that up. But you might want to come up with something that doesn't necessarily carry your name. And I know that you hear from a variety of different people, no, it needs to have your name on it because it's your brand. I can argue that one six ways from Sunday. I can also argue for it six ways from Sunday. So I'm just giving you something to think about and see what resonates with your own, with your own self.

And heck, you might already be in business, but you're just trying to figure out how to get some foothold in a new economy. So figure out who you are. So step back and figure out okay, well who am I, who do I want to serve? Okay, what strengths do I bring to the table? What makes me a badass? We actually go through a lot of this in my paid program, The Interior Design Business Bakery. We really dive deep into it. But what makes you a badass? We all have something that makes us a badass. So then you're going to take that, and you're going to exploit it. And then you're going to figure out okay, well, who do I want to work with? Knowing that this is my badass superpower, who can I serve best?

So once you have that footing, and this is something that a lot of us don't think about to begin with, because we're just like, Oh, I'm an interior designer, and I can help anybody. Well, you probably can, but you're probably not going to do your best work with just anybody. You're going to do your best work, provide the highest value, and demand the highest compensation, when you are who you are, and you know who you serve. For example, if you are a woman's hairdresser specializing in long hair, the balayage or whatever it was called back in the day, you know that you can serve a woman or even a man who walks in with the long hair and wants that particular look, compared to somebody who wants a pink Mohawk. Okay, you can charge more, because this is what you're passionate, this is what you're good at, this is who you serve. And could you do a pink Mohawk? Yeah, probably. But, you know, I really don't want to, not that good at it. And I can't charge you very much because I'm not very good at it. So own that space as you are structuring your business. And that can go on your website, and that can go on your marketing material, that can go on your social media content, all of the things.

Now that you kind of have this foundation and you're structuring your business, intentionally, your marketing can begin. Your next level of marketing, your social media is kind of marketing already and so is your website. But how do you go out and get your name out there? Well, you can join a networking group. Honestly, that was one of the best things I did when I was first starting my business, I just barely, a baby designer, and I was charging like 75 bucks an hour. Okay, so it's not for everybody. And it's not for the long term until you find a specific and strategic networking group. So for example, BNI, Business Networking International, or something like that, that's the one I joined. It has a great reputation, and it served a purpose well, for me to be able to understand, like my elevator pitch, getting out and explaining things to the individuals, and so forth. Did I garner some business from it, I did, because I was doing a lot of home staging and kind of redesign at the time. But it's, in my opinion, it's not a long-term solution because you kind of outgrow those individuals. We're going to be moving into more of a luxury service, where hopefully, you're not charging $75 an hour for more than a very short period of time. And here's a plug again, for my paid program, the Interior Design Business Bakery, is going to teach you how to exponentially blow the doors off of your pricing structure because I walk you through all of it.

Okay, enough of that commercial. But you can go out and you can go to these networking groups. You can find a National Association of Remodeling Industry go to the NARI meetings, go to your builder’s council and go to some of the higher-end Realtors, strategically. Now, a lot of them are going to want you to sponsor, hey, can you come in and sponsor a breakfast for our office of a hundred and you can give a 15-minute presentation? Well, that sounds great. But 100 people, and they want bagels and cream cheese and coffee and all the fixins, it could add up to quite a bit of money for 15 minutes. So unless you have a pitch that is going to close the deal, you can reconsider how you approach them. You might step in and get a co-sponsor with you. That instead of 15 minutes, you get ten and they get five because you're bringing them to the dance. So there's different ways that you can go about this.

Right now all you want to do is you want to be making sure that the individuals who interact with the individuals that you identified as the people you want to work with, know that you exist. And they start to get to know you because you're showing up on a regular basis. Because you're showing up professionally. Because you're showing up with your business cards that are branded in a similar manner as your website. Maybe you wear the same color all the time because that's your brand. There's a variety of different things that you can do. The difference is, is that you have to keep showing up. So you have to keep showing up.

In the middle of your journey, during let's say an economic downturn, an economic time of confusion, just like, we don't know what's going to happen, you still have to show up. You cannot go disappear for two weeks and not show up at some of these meetings, and then just show back up, because you were hiding in your bed. Show up, talk to other people, get their opinions, you know, Hey, how's your business looking, you know, lead realtor who's selling multimillion-dollar homes. Because oftentimes, some of the more elite still have that disposable income. And like it or not, y'all, wherever you are in your business, you don't serve everybody, this is a luxury market. And it would be nice to be the affordable designer. But I've been there done that it sucks. Those clients are the hardest. We want clients who understand that this is a luxury, and we provide them with a result that they could not find if they went to a DIY'er. So maybe you also need to raise your standards. Raise your standards of who you are going to serve, raise your standards of how you're going to show up. Because ultimately, the structure of your business to navigate in any economy, it starts with you.

And then once you have this foundation, and once you are committed because you have to be 110% committed to your business. It's like a marriage, you always have to be giving 100% and then your partner or your business has to be giving you 100%. If you're not putting into it what you want to get out of it, then it's just the same as with a relationship. If you're only putting 50% of your potential into your marriage, you're not going to get 100% from your partner. You're bringing the standards of that relationship down, it's the same thing with your business.

Then what you're going to do is you're going to start creating repeatable processes, repeatable procedures, repeatable pricing in your business, so that it can continue to grow and thrive. But here's the best thing is, if you're not slammed with business right now, what better time is there to create a strong foundation? If you imagine building a house, and the foundation is just, you know, it's got the, it's got the plumbing lines up, it's got the, it's got the outline done, but there's like, no concrete or anything in there, and they're trying to hammer the beams in, and they're trying to, you know, put a chimney and all those things, there's nothing for to hold on to. So you have to be able to take your time and create this strong foundation, create an understanding of what this is going to look like, knowing that it's going to evolve.

I still don't know what my business is going to completely look like after all this time because I always have dreams, I always have aspirations, and I try something that I think is going to work great, and it doesn't work for shit. But it's going to evolve. Okay, so it's not exactly like a house where you have construction blueprints and all the things, but you have to do it in order, you have to do it in order. So take some time and get intentional. And figure out how to, you can run your business, you can navigate it in any economy. Is it going to be as lucrative as it is in a super-hot economy where, you know, houses aren't overpriced, and gas isn't $4 a tank, and milk isn't $17 a gallon. I exaggerate on that, but you know what I'm saying. And it's up to you to cut through the fear. Turn the TV off, just turn the TV off. That's a whole other conversation. Turn the television off, pick it up once in a while, get the basic news, and then go out there and do your own damn thing with blinders on.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss. Yeah, I stand by that. I just stop and rethink, okay, am I gonna shoot myself in the foot with that comment, but no, I think sometimes ignorance is bliss. Just get out there. Forge your path. Just like going back to that earlier stage when your child was learning how to rollover, how to crawl, how to walk, how to run. They'd fall, give yourself the grace to fall. Give yourself the grace to not be, you know, walking as quickly as you want to in your business. But knowing that you'll get there.

So I say this to you with complete conviction, having come through 2008 and then in 2013, I had a very strong interior design staging, it was a good portion of staging. I had a 5000-square foot warehouse with inventory, for staging homes. I love staging homes, that would turn into me, decorating the next homes and all the things. So it was a great setup. In 2013 in Dallas, I would get a call, let's say, Friday night or Thursday or Friday, saying hey, can you come out and stage this property on such and such date or whatever. And whether it was, it could have been occupied, or it could have been vacant, whatever it is. I'd say sure. So we'd book it for whatever day, let's just say we booked it for the following week on Wednesday. Well, Tuesday, they'd put a sign in the yard saying coming soon. And then I'd get a call that Wednesday saying, Hey, I don't need you to stage the house, because we've already got three offers from my coming soon sign. Okay, so this happened over and over and over again. I was like, holy frijoles, what am I going to do? You know, this process that I had set up where I could stage and then I could decorate their homes and do all the things, organize it, came to a screeching halt because nobody needed their home staged.

So here I am, I'm like letting go of this inventory. I'm like, pivot. Oh, my friend, Robin, she says it's not a pivot, it's a twirl. So we twirled our business a little bit. And I really had to figure out how to drill down into the decorating, the design. How do you price it? How do you run the projects and all the things? So even though once you have something with a solid foundation, it can change, it can change.

And then of course, we've got this up and running and so forth. I'm not doing staging anymore. And then COVID hits. Hmm, how do you navigate that economy? You know what? It was a great time for me to pull back, reexamine what's working in my business, what's not working in my business, and then make some adjustments. During COVID is when I created a lot of my paid program. Because I had started it in 2018 when my daughter was born, I had started, I put the content together and all the things, but it wasn't working as well as I wanted it to.

So during COVID, it gave me the opportunity to fall back a little bit. I was still making some money doing, you know, projects that were already in the works, the clients wanted to see through. Of course, it was strategic, showing up at people's houses when they weren't there and sanitizing and de-sanitizing all the things. But it works. Now part of it was also because I had my blinders on, I had one direction, and that was going to be forward. So it does come down to you and your fortitude and not hiding under the covers. Not coming up with excuses of why you can't. Because again, when I was there, and this is not I'm a badass, I'm of this, I'm like that. I'm just saying that I've walked this path and I know it works. I know that when I was moving forward, some of my competition was putting their head in the sand and crying. It was a shitty-ass time for the whole world, right? But not every moment of every day is that bad. Find some time, find the good in it. Take, you know, during COVID I, well, I'd like to say I took a nap or two, but technically my child was home, so it was hard. It was hard. And this current economic state might be difficult too but just know that you have the ability to structure your business and navigate in any economy.

Finally, I'm going to tell you, as you start making money, save some, it does not all have to go back into the business. You need to pay yourself. Pay yourself, you need to be taking an actual paycheck and not just a draw when you want to go buy a dress. Pay yourself, put money in the bank, stay lean, don't let every single shiny object, new software, magazine advertisements, bla bla bla. Keep your blinders on. Don't get distracted. And I think my friends, that is my TED Talk. But I'm just here to really, really share with you that it can be done.

I came out of two other industries not knowing shizizzle about interior design. So if you're feeling like you need some guidance, if you're feeling like you need a mentor, yes, I do have a program that will show you every single thing that you need to do and then some in the order that you need to do, it because everybody's a little bit different, but we can tailor the program accordingly. And you have a badass community cheering you on. Everybody goes through the Interior Design Business Bakery a little bit differently. But there's never been anybody who hasn't exponentially increased their income by doing it, there hasn't been anybody. My intention is that you make your money back, you make that investment back in 90 days. I've had people make it back in three weeks, I've had people make it back in like six or eight months because of the circumstances that they were operating under. But it's an investment. And it's going to allow you to have that resilience and that confidence to know that your business has been structured, and that you are badass enough to weather these storms.

So I will have information in the show notes as to how you can reach that. But you can also find me on the Instagram under Designed for the Creative Mind, ML Interiors Group, M-L as in Michelle Lynne. I'm on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, under Michelle Lynne Pant, all the things. And finally, if you think any of these episodes have been worth your time on Spotify or Stitcher or Amazon music or Apple podcasts, would you please leave me a review? It really does help in regards to the searching for the search relevancy, the algorithms that they do there, and all the things. So thank you so much for joining me, thank you for listening. I hope that you found some inspiration, some courage, some enthusiasm here.

And finally, if you're not ready to sign up for a paid program, don't hesitate to join me over in my Facebook launchpad group. It's called the Interior Designers Business Launchpad. It's a really badass group. On September 12th, we are starting our next workshop. It's called Rolling in the Dough. It's free, it's a five-day workshop. And we teach how to qualify, quote, and close high-end clients while you're baking your profits into your project. I also have another program coming out it's called Designed from Scratch. And literally that's going to teach you some of the foundations of design, provide you with enough confidence, and enough of the vernacular to really understand it. And I have the Interior Design Business Success Summit that I had referred to earlier in the podcast, which is October 12th, 13th, and 14th, in Dallas, Texas. And you can get all this information, all this information on my link in bio pretty much on Instagram, as well as Facebook. So that's enough about me, here's to you, go out, make it a badass day. And enjoy it.

Hey, y'all, if you love the show and find it useful, I would really appreciate it if you would share with your friends and followers. And if you like what you're hearing, want to put a face with the name and get even more business advice, then join me and my Facebook group, The Interior Designers Business Launchpad. Yeah, I know it's Facebook, but just come on in for the training and then leave without scrolling your feed. It's fine, I promise you'll enjoy it. And finally, I hear it's good for business to get ratings on your podcast. So please drop yours on whatever platform you use to listen to this. We're all about community over competition. So let's work on elevating our industry, one designer at a time. See you next time.

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